“welcome hello lovely to see you all

uh i’m martha i am your trainer for

today i’m training on behalf of the

money charity on behalf of the seafarers

charity as part of the wider safety net

campaign in this financial champions

supporting fishers

uh piece of work for you all


hopefully as i said today is going to be

both enjoyable and informative

for you all and what we’re about today

is about helping you to help fishers

to get the information that they need to

manage their finances better so it’s not

about you becoming incredible financial

experts um or you know perfect fountains

of all knowledge being able to give

loads of great advice

but it is about you being able to point

fishes in the right direction

now in order that we can tell something

about how effective or otherwise this

training is

i’m going to

do a quick poll with you all to find out

how you are already how confident you

are already and we’ll do another poll at

the end as well to see what’s changed so


quick poll right at the beginning


we’ve got a spectrum here


of different results i’m just going to

make a quick

note of those


but broadly

yeah broadly we’ve got a spectrum across

the way


of how people feel and hopefully by the

end this is going to tilt

more towards the people who

feel really confident and feel good

about their ability to support fishers

with their finances

bab okay

thank you very much

all right so let’s get going


first of all

uh i want to make sure that you all have


really great resource that we have put

together to support you in what we’re

doing so you’re not going away thinking


i’m gonna have to learn all this stuff

and then just remember it and i’ve got

to have it all memorized there’s

actually a nice resource that we’ve put

together people download

print off keep to hand so i’m just going

to pop a link to that in your chat there

um and i’m sure that will be available

from seafarers charity in future as well

when you need it um i have popped the

link in the chat there so you can

download that resource um but let’s get

on with the session because it is a

packed session today we want to try and

get through everything

so it’s 90 minutes plus another 15

minutes for harriet who is going to be

talking about safetynet campaign which

is a broader campaign sits around this

money champions are part of a whole

programme of work to help

fishers and people it just in the

fishing industry to improve their

financial situation particularly fishers

and uh sheriff fisherman in particular


will be taking questions in the chat um

it says questions in chat we answered at

the end of the webinar um to be honest

just throw them in there as we go

through questions and thoughts i love

getting your feedback in the um

in the chat so even if you just go in do

an mlg give me a thumbs up as we’re

going i love that that’s great so

digital handouts i’ve already popped one

in there once i’m going to while i think

about it put another one in there that’s

that’s really useful which is a plain

english guide


the language of money to financial


which i really love


honestly half of dealing with your money

is understanding the language right so

put a nice little plain english guide to

some of the money language that’s out

there if you download those two they’re

gonna really help you out


some expectation setting we’re not

expecting you as many champions to

perform miracles right nobody’s going to

expect you to double a fish’s income or

suddenly make everybody who talks to you

rich or um suddenly give everybody

perfect money skills from doing this

it’s not about that it’s about giving

you the ability to

be supportive in the right in a helpful

way in the right way um to

give reliable information to point

people towards the right sources of

information the right source of advice

at the right time um so that people get

the help they need um and fishers can um

you know have a first port of call as it

were in you and you’ll be able to then

direct them onwards to some of the other

really great advice and information

that’s out there for them okay



here is what we are going to talk about

we’re going to talk about the difference

between giving financial advice and then

what you’re going to be doing which is

about support information and guidance

so where is that line into advice that

you don’t want to cross we’re going to

talk about that we’re going to talk

about how do you stay the right side of

that and just give information and

guidance and support

i’m going to talk about tax national

insurance and how important that is

that’s a major area where a lot of

people who um are fishing get into a lot

of trouble we’re going to talk about

sign posting fishes to tools and


how to make a spending plan how to help

them smooth out their income because we

all know that fishing incomes

rise fall they can be lumpy they can be


obviously they’re seasonal so all of

those kind of things just about bit

about smoothing that income out

we’re going to talk about the idea of

good and bad debt and how do we um

you know make sure that people stay away

from bad debt

and priority and non-priority debt so if

somebody doesn’t have the money to cover

all of their

bills and expenses

what’s the absolute essentials that they

really need to make sure are covered

what’s priority and then where are the

consequences less severe if they can’t

make that payment

something about the cost of borrowing

money as well

uh we’re going to talk about credit

unions a little bit and comsave which is

the new credit union for the fishing


borrowing from licensed lenders and

staying away from informal borrowing

from friends and family

the risks that are around that

and particularly loan sharks the dangers

of loan sharks in your community how to

spot them what could do if you know that

there is a loan mark in your local area

some of the organizations providing

independent free debt and money advice

and how to sign post effectively to


so that people you’re speaking to get

the advice that they need


so starting off

quick fire in the chat why do you think

it’s so important that fishers get the

money skills have the right money skills

why do they need really good money


but some of them given you some thoughts

already but why is it so important that

they have really good money skills

put your thoughts in the chat

irregular income yep being self-employed

yes it’s an unpredictable occupation

it’s difficult to manage any regular

income yep it’s not consistent exactly

landings are not reliable


that’s you absolutely hit the nail on

the head that’s the biggest one

remaining solvent especially if they

have a family yes definitely being able

to plan ahead for bad markets definitely

all of those things indeed really really


and coming off the back of that

um we also have lack of financial skills

yet unpredictable rising costs of fuel

yeah i hadn’t had that one but

absolutely that’s important supporting

an extended family network potentially



coming off the back of that so we’ve got

a whole bunch of things that come away

from that self-employment and

unpredictable income


there are

aspects that where the income is

unreliable even when you’re fit and well

but you’ve got weather injury boat

repairs things that can knock somebody

out of action for a while

and an unpredictable income leads to

difficulty borrowing it’s very hard to

have a good credit score when your

income is unpredictable

which then leads to difficulty borrowing

at a reasonable cost

benefit system is not designed to work

well with this kind of income

and lifestyle

and so there’s a whole kind of raft of

issues that come off from that irregular

income and self-employment coming from

loss of income yeah lots of equipment

storms etc

being responsible for tax ni all of that

stuff planning for retirement yeah it’s

hard to do all of that stuff

for yourself there’s not an employer

doing it for you


so there’s a whole raft of things that

mean that fishes need to be above

average in terms of

how competent they are and how

determined they are to manage their

money well


if you needed to talk to somebody about

your money what would you want

so you’re going to be there to be a

person that people will talk to about

their money

what kind of treatment would you want if

you’re going to have talked to somebody

about your money how do you want to be


by that person

you listen to yes absolutely super


what else

you listen to and

to be understood yeah honesty yeah

yeah empathy non-judgment respect great

answers coming through in the chat here

as an adult yeah you don’t want to be

patronized right empathetic

knowledgeable not a salesperson really

important right discretion yeah privacy

is a big deal right with money you need

an expert okay

i’m going to say something you need

somebody who

in with that honesty

says this is what i know this is what i

don’t know and this he

can refer to an expert doesn’t try and

blag it and say that they know more than

they do

communicating in language i understand

absolutely confidential simple

straightforward words all of that

absolutely one of the reasons why the

first thing i did was to give you that

plain english jargon buster

um because it’s so important to be

speaking people’s language yeah

fantastic all of this is really great

um so

here are some top tips about having a

good conversation about money we want to

speak in private make sure we’re going

to be really clear that we’re going to

keep anything personal confidential

we’re not trying to make any personal

gain out of this so we’re not um being a

salesperson as somebody said

we’re listening carefully we’re not

assuming anything about somebody’s

situation we’re just acting on what they

tell us so not trying to get ahead of

ourselves being honest say how you can

help how you can’t help when you can


who else could be helpful

not pushing somebody towards a specific

solution you’re letting them choose and

that’s part of that yeah don’t over

promise and under deliver definitely

exactly part of that treating people

like an adult

is about giving them the choice right so

we’re not just saying this is the right

thing for you to do just go off and do

what i tell you because i’m telling you

what to do

no we’re giving them the range of

options the pros and cons of those

options and then letting them choose

because they’re responsible for what

they’re going to do

simple clear explanations referring to

experts when necessary and we’re looking

at the future lots of people said

empathy and lack of

non-judgment so we’re not judging what

people have done in the past you might

think oh how could you get into a mess

like that

but that’s not what it’s about it’s

about future actions supporting people

to make responsible wise choices

for their future from now on so many

people who come for money advices are

ashamed and so hard on themselves

already that actually

you know

you getting on top of them as well is

you’re only adding on to that it’s not


step by step supporting them through


yeah so somebody to be with them through


as much as you can although we don’t

expect you to

um put huge amounts of time into any

specific person’s case and kind of take

over doing everything with them but you

know like as

within your role you know being

supportive being there for them



sounds like you’re really on this that’s


okay so let’s talk about this guidance

advice issue this is really important

want to get this to you straight away

right at the top


advice financial advice is a regulated

term so let’s talk about the difference

between guidance and giving advice

financial advice is what financial



um and people who are in a right in

regulated financial advice in financial

services do debt advisors also have to

be regulated and they give advice so

when you see that word advice in


job role around money they should be

authorized regulated and properly


by the financial conduct authority


and the reason is because advice is

about giving somebody a recommendation

about what they should


so it’s a tailored solution

based on somebody’s personal


based on their objectives based on what

they’ve said they want

and it’s specific

it says you should

take out a specific product or stop

using a specific product

or um

you should go to a specific provider


um it’s all about that you should take

this solution


not only are we saying don’t do it

because you have to be authorized you

have to be regulated you have to be

properly insured all of that stuff yes

but it’s also about responsibility right

so when you give advice a person who

gives advice in a financial sense

gives advice

is to some extent taking on the

responsibility for that being the right


whereas what we want you to do is to

give guidance and with guidance


person the the other person retains the

responsibility for the choice they make

okay so what is guidance let’s talk

about the other side of it this is what

we want you to do


helps a person to understand what they



so advice this is what you should do

this is the solution for you

we think this is the right thing

guidance on the other hand

as opposed to advice

a guidance says these are some things

that you could do these are the

advantages and disadvantages of those

some general types of products some

general principles

there is no personal recommendation

there is no specific

solution offered it’s just these are


options for you

let’s help you understand those

what’s good and what’s not so good about

them and you can make a decision about

what’s right for you

it’s not regulated anybody can give

guidance um and so

because it’s not about you taking the


for giving for what what the person does

because you’re not specifically saying

one solution

hopefully that makes sense to everybody

what that difference is


so we’re going to do a quick uh

a quick kind of

run through of the the whys which i’ve

talked about a bit already

um and then we’ll do a quick poll and

you can confirm to me that you have got


um so i’ve already said giving advice

makes you responsible i’ve already

mentioned about the regulated advisors


a couple of things as well guidance

helps fishers learn to solve their own

problems in future so guidance is more

educational than advice

with advice often

the person who’s seeking advice goes

just take this problem away from me and

the advisor goes yeah sure i’ve taken

the problem away from me here’s the


um whereas guidance helps the person

learn to solve their own problems in


and when a person makes a choice for


as they do in a guidance situation it’s

like it’s their choice they own it

they’re responsible for it there’s no

pushback of oh well this person told me

to do it but actually i don’t like it so

i’m not going to bother you don’t get

that that pushback aspect so

psychologically there’s some an element

of the responsibility taking that can be

really valuable too

okay so

quick poll let’s see do we think this is

advice or do we think this is guidance

and it’s okay

so official tells you they’ve been

saving money for emergencies in drawing

their house and you say um

that’s not safe what if it gets stolen

you have to get a savings account you

should get a savings account with

halifax then nice in there talk to

sherry she’s great she’ll get you a good


so uh quick poll

is that advice or is that guidance

remember advice

it’s all about telling people what they

should do guidance is about telling

people what they could do

so guidance is the one we want to stick

with advice is the one we want to stay

away from




one i’m going to close the poll

um and here we go most people have got

that right

um this is advice you want to stick well

clear of this

in this uh we’re telling the person

where to go what product to get we’re

telling them what bank to go to we’re

even telling them what advisor to speak

to in the bank so that’s very much

specific tailored advice and that’s what

we want to steer well clear of okay so

definitely that is advice



let’s do another one of these

just to make sure you’ve got it



have official come to us and they say

they need to get a personal loan they

think the bank’s not going to lend them

the money

they say what would you do

you say well

i can’t say

i’m not in that in your position i can

talk to you about some of the things

that you could do

um here’s some information about how to

choose a loan with low fees and interest


you show them how to use a comparison

site potentially you also mentioned that

comm save credit union exists

and it has a specific product for


um and the fisher looks at the offers on

the comparison site has a chat with

comsave in the end they think comp saves

the right thing for them and they borrow

from comm save


is that advice or is that guidance

and tina has put the comm save link into

the chat thank you very much tina that’s



give me another couple of seconds get

those answers in there as quick as


okay okay keep it moving


three two one


and there we go again

almost everybody got that one right that

is guidance so even though we have said

mentioned a specific provider all we’ve

done is say they exist right

we haven’t said they’re the right thing

for you we haven’t said that the only


um and

many fishers will not know about the

existence of compsave

so because they don’t know that that


they would not otherwise have that as an

option so we’re just saying like look

these are these options exist and then

this option also exists that does have a

specific product but i’m not saying

it’s the right thing i’m just saying it



advantages and disadvantages so

you’re okay with that it is within the


and you’re all right to do that and as i

said tina has already dropped the link

in there so fab thank you very much tina


all right so let’s talk about

some quickly some frustrations sometimes

uh people really want advice they just

want to be told what to do

um and it can be really tempting

especially when there is one really

clear obvious choice that’s the right

thing for somebody to do very tempting

to just tell them that just do this but

you cannot do it you can’t even just


and people will do things like say

um well what would you do

and you have to say well i’m not you so

our situation is different so i can’t

tell you it’s your choice


make sure you’re always batting that

back to that person ultimately they have

to be responsible for their own decision

you’re guiding you’re supporting but you

cannot recommend a specific course of


um with regards to products

okay um

these are some signs from step change

that you might want to watch out for

um that somebody is struggling

financially so as a money champion

you’re going to want to kind of be aware

of these signals that this might be

somebody that you want to just check in

with make sure they’re okay

so history of debt problems

seeming tired difficulty sleeping debt

stress often causes people to have

sleepless nights doesn’t want to get

together sort of spending more time by

themselves borrowing to pay food or


if you know something that might cause a

recent loss of income

they seem to be way living beyond their

means um and they the income you know of

and their lifestyle don’t match up

if they’re borrowing early um soon after

a catch soon after getting paid


or you see kind of changes in behavior

that implies somebody’s struggling um

and again you know you might not

personally see this but if you notice

that their

bills are unopened or they’re being

really cagey around money that might be

a sign too

okay suppose spending plans as opposed

to budgets

we avoid the b word just because a lot

of people have negative associations

with it a spending plan sounds like

something somebody might want to do as

opposed to a budget which lots of people

don’t want to do but

um you know it’s up to you we have in



document that i’ve already put into the

chat once but i’m going to do it again

and in the


there we go

there it is make sure everybody gets

that download

and in all the resources that you will


from the safety net later um there’s a

nice planning sheet to help people to

plan their money um to make a spending

plan for matching and making sure that

their outgoings are not higher than

their incoming

understanding where their money is going

and how they can plan

not just for the day-to-day bills but

also those occasional expenses that come

up that can really throw people so

things that knock people’s spending out

of whack apart from an unexpectedly long

time between

um ability to earn things that throw

people things like birthdays christmas

you’d think um because they come around

the same time every year you’d expect

people to have the money for them but no

lots of people don’t plan in their

spending plans for those things and

actually it’s really important they do

which is one of the reason why

this budget planner sheet which looks

super detailed and a bit intimidating to

some people it’s not it’s just there to

remind you of all those things that you

might otherwise forget



like boat insurance we haven’t got boat

insurance in there because it’s a

generic one but we do have insurance

annual insurance payments in there

and boat insurance has probably got to

be in in the high uh top ones for those

um things like you know household

repairs and replacements

those sort of throw people out of wax

those occasional expenses making sure


there’s money going aside every month

so that when those big things come round

as they do maybe once every six months

once a year there’s something in the pot

already for them and we’re not

scrambling and cutting back on

everything else that month


there is also an online money charity

bunny budget builder so people who don’t

want to have to do the maths themselves

which you have to do with a paper form


find online planners that will do it for

you they do all your maths all you do is

plug in the right numbers um which you

should use

uh the real figures really important

when you’re talking to

um fishers about planning their spending

that they have to use the actual real


from their own bills from their bank


um from their receipts and not just

optimistically make it up because

otherwise it’s not a plan it’s just a


right got to make sure it’s based on

real numbers

there are lots of other places online

that you can also get these things so

money helper fantastic website loads of

free information completely independent

um run by the government so it’s it’s

just a completely

independent from all financial services

it’s not trying to sell you anything

um and that has loads of information and

that includes a budget planner citizens

advice which you may well have heard of


they have a budget planner an online one

as well where you can plug your figures

in um money saving expert which is a

for-profit website

um but it does have loads of great free

information they have a good really

detailed budget planner something that

can be downloaded as a spreadsheet or i

think there might be one you can work on

online as well

so there’s loads of great options

on there um and it’s really just about

finding the one that works for that

person right everybody has their own

personal preferences about what they

like there are also loads of really good

mobile apps as well some of which access


uh bank details on a kind of read-only

basis and they pretty much like download

your latest transactions and then sort

the data out so anything that’s from

tesco’s gets sorted into groceries

category for example


make sure if anybody’s going to use a

mobile app

that they understand the terms and

conditions what they’re signing up to

they’re happy with the privacy and

security of that app

and i

i would just don’t recommend any

specific apps

um because a lot of them now come with

financial products attached to them

which means you’re edging into that area

of am i giving advice

um but you can certainly tell people

that there are lots of these apps exist

and they can be really helpful


hopefully you’re all good it’s all gone

really quiet in the chat again so give

me a thumbs up say hi

um if there is

um anything that you want to give me any

thoughts on what we’ve said so far let’s

talk about boosting income and cutting

costs because it’s all very well making

a plan but you have to make that plan

balance and do the best you can to have

the income side going up and the cost

side’s lower so that we’re not

in an unbalanced situation and spending

more than we have coming in

so first place to look i’d suggest if


need to get an income boost

is turn to us dot org dot uk we’ll look

at that a little bit more a bit later on

in the training

turn to us

is a website with loads of information

about benefits

and just raising income in general um

especially anybody with a family or a

young family should get in the habit of

checking their benefits entitlement at

least once a year


unless you’re on a really comfortable

income and i know there are plenty of

fishers who do earn a really comfortable


it’s good idea to check regularly

because the system changes all the time

so what somebody’s entitled to might

change and you could miss out if you’re

not checking regularly

so you can do that do a personalized

check find out what you’re entitled to

um i know we’ve got some great people

from fisherman’s mission here local

fishermen’s mission um representatives

uh potentially can help with applying

for grants

so if somebody’s really struggling and

potentially a charitable grant might be

a good solution for them

for example to meet some you know

one-off unexpected expense

that could be a solution for them

i know that there are opportunities

sometimes for grants to get things like

fuel bills written off if somebody’s got

fuel arrears

um as in as in electricity and gas areas

or um home

oil heating areas um i know that water

arrears can sometimes be written off

sometimes you can get educational grants

grants for white goods things like

washing machines cookers so there’s lots

of availability potentially out there


fish mesh can be as i gabby you’re

called can be a really good place to go

for help with some of that stuff we

always suggest that people have separate

email accounts for things like online

shopping deals and competitions as

opposed to like personal communications

so that if you’re trying to email about


um that’s just like personal that you’re

having a chat with somebody somehow um

if you still use email for that

and you’re keeping that separate from

all the marketing emails that you might

get from online shopping deals

competitions that kind of thing and so

you’re not

accidentally getting drawn into spending

money when you weren’t intending to but

do keep an eye on things like shopping

deals and competitions because there can

be ways to get some income

through being on a newsletter or a

mailing list that you would otherwise



check out cashback sites like quid co

and topcashback if you have an account

with those you use those click through

from those to somewhere that where

you’re going to do your shopping so you

choose what you’re going to buy first


and then use your quidco account

click through or your top cashback

account and click through and buy the

thing you were already gonna buy don’t

use it as an excuse to buy something you

weren’t already gonna buy and you can

get cash back on your purchases often in

the realms of somewhere around it’s only

one to three percent sometimes it can be



but those cashbacks can add up quite

quickly particularly if you’re buying

bigger things

um so yeah they can that could be a

really helpful

kind of ongoing little drip drip of

extra money um sometimes you can get

online competitions that could be quite

valuable again

um it’s not a reliable source of income

but it can be quite nice

and um it’s amazing the things that you

can sell on ebay and facebook i’ve known

people who have sold um you know big

packets of um they’ve saved their empty

toilet tubes and sold all these a big

pack of toilet tubes as um craft

materials for example

um so it’s amazing what can be sold on

ebay and facebook um on facebook

marketplace um you would not think

people would buy stuff but but it’s

amazing when you look what people will



um i mentioned already turned to us as

being a really useful website this is

what the site looks like so it’s um a

national charity for helping people with

income i want to particularly highlight

the fact there is this benefits checker

on here


and um this is well worth pointing out

as well that people can have set up an

account so that if they don’t have all

the numbers and information they need

when they’re going through the benefits

check the first time

they can have an account and come back

and uh you know continue a calculation

at a later point so that they’re not


you know they don’t have to sit down and

do it all at once in one shot and have

all of their information at the same


um some others that can be useful

seafarer support is quite a useful

source of information as well can be a

little out of date from time to time and

applying for the grants that you might

find on there is hard work so

fisherman’s mission or sale

would be

my ports of call


uh actually making any kind of

applications but just to check out and

see whether there might be something

this is a useful website as a potential

source of information

and then we’ve got some fab websites for

helping to make your money go further um

all of these would be a really good

places to look for information about

money saving of different kinds

which i think a lot of people know about

which so if you want to understand

financial products you want simple

explanations what on earth is an isa

which has a good

set of rundown of information about what

is nicer they also do best buys for lots

of different types of products so if you

want to make sure that you’re buying is

value for money it’s good quality which

is often a really good place to look for


money saving expert already mentioned it

already you might recognize martin lewis

from the telly


it’s one of the ugliest websites on the

internet but it’s also

absolutely crammed with really great

information and often very good for

latest breaking news around money issues

for ordinary people


um what do i do my my gas bill is about

to rise because the fuel crisis right


money saving expert probably has some

good information to help understand what

your options are and what might be a

good solution there



yeah so which so some of it is free some

of it’s not free i would say the

information articles are often free but

whether the best buy stuff is less

likely to be

so i think they’re good for like basic


but you’re right there there’s um a lot

that’s also behind a paywall that’s true


freegal and freecycle um if you haven’t

heard of these these are local community

groups you sign up for your group in

your local area

and people who have something to give


often items of furniture kitchenware

um i got a tent

a brand almost brand new tent to go

camping with um for free people give

away stuff when they have a clear out on

freegle and free cycle and potentially

there’s the opportunity to get some

stuff for free or if you’re having a

clear out you can get ri”